Horace Mann (HMN) Q3 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

Image source: The Motley Fool.

Date

Wednesday, Nov. 5, 2025, at 11 a.m. ET

Call participants

• President and Chief Executive Officer — Marita Zuraitis
• Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer — Ryan Edward Greenier
• Vice President, Investor Relations — Rachel Luber

Need a quote from a Motley Fool analyst? Email pr@fool.com

Takeaways

• Core EPS -- Core earnings per share reached $1.36 for Q3 2025, up 64% year-over-year, with management highlighting this as a record result.
• Trailing Twelve-Month Core ROE -- Trailing twelve-month core return on equity was 13.8%.
• Total Revenues -- Quarterly revenues climbed 6% in Q3 2025.
• Supplemental and Group Benefits Sales -- Individual supplemental sales increased 40%, with Group Benefits reporting record sales; all business lines posted higher sales.
• Full-Year 2025 Core EPS Guidance -- Full-year 2025 core EPS guidance was raised to a range of $4.5-$4.7, assuming $65 million catastrophe losses and $473-$477 million in total net investment income guidance.
• Property & Casualty Profitability -- Property & Casualty combined ratio was 91.4% year-to-date Q3 2025; auto combined ratio of 96.4% year-to-date, property combined ratio was 83.1% year-to-date.
• Pretax Catastrophe Losses -- Year-to-date pretax catastrophe losses fell to $56 million from $91 million.
• Life and Retirement Earnings -- Core earnings for this segment held steady at $15 million for Q3 2025, with net written premiums and contract deposits rising to $170 million.
• Life and Retirement Sales Growth -- Life sales grew 16%, while retirement deposits increased 9%.
• Supplemental Benefits Utilization and Ratio -- Policyholder utilization stayed below historical norms; The blended benefits ratio averaged 37% year-to-date versus a 39% long-term target.
• Property Net Written Premiums -- Increased 20% to $99 million in Q3 2025, with property combined ratio improving to 75.3 and policyholder retention near 89%.
• Shareholder Capital Returns -- $20 million repurchased in shares through October and $43 million paid in dividends through October; $57 million remains authorized for repurchases as of October 2025.
• Debt Issuance -- $300 million in senior notes due 2030 issued at a 4.7% coupon in September 2025, over five times oversubscribed.
• Expense Management Initiatives -- Termination of a legacy dormant pension plan is expected to yield over $1 million in annualized pretax run-rate savings, with the transaction expected to be finalized in the fourth quarter.
• Expense Ratio Target -- Management reiterated intent to lower the expense ratio by 1.5 points over the next three years.
• GenAI Adoption -- GenAI deployment to automate call notes in customer care, reducing representative administrative time by 20% to 30% daily, is expected to deliver productivity gains.
• Strategic Partnerships -- New partnerships with Teach For America and Grand Canyon University expand access to educators and support targeted financial wellness initiatives.
• Growth in Distribution Network -- The benefit specialists network expanded nearly 30% over the past year.

Summary

Horace Mann Educators (NYSE:HMN) management emphasized that each business segment is performing at or above targeted profitability metrics, providing room to accelerate scale-building investments while maintaining discipline on expenses. The updated full-year 2025 core EPS guidance range of $4.5-$4.7 factors in both strategic investments and significant non-recurring expense items, including a planned $3-$7 million foundation donation. Management clarified that lower catastrophe losses contributed to the profitability metrics for 2025 but do not prompt expectations for materially lower future catastrophe loss assumptions. Segment-specific rate increases for next year are targeted in the mid-single digits for auto and high-single digits for property, in line with or ahead of expected loss trends.

• CFO Ryan Edward Greenier noted, "Auto net written premiums of $132 million increased slightly over the prior year," while household retention in auto fell to 84% but was characterized as stable.
• Group Benefits delivered record sales of $6 million in Q3 2025, nearly twice the prior year's figure, though management described this segment as "relatively small" according to Marita Zuraitis and subject to quarterly fluctuation.
• Fixed income new money yield exceeded book yield by over 100 basis points year-to-date, with management saying it was the "fifteenth consecutive quarter that new money yields in the core portfolio have exceeded book yield."
• Annual actuarial reviews in Q3 2025 led to a $3.5 million life reserve decrease (GAAP only) and a $5.4 million GAAP retirement reserve increase, impacting only GAAP earnings and noted as non-cash with no effect on free cash flow.
• Recent capital actions included retiring short-term maturities via the new $300 million senior note issuance in September at a record-tight spread, indicating robust investor demand.
• Despite recognizing elevated near-term expense levels, management asserted investments are balanced to support both growth-building scale and operational efficiency to reach long-term profitability goals.

Industry glossary

• Combined Ratio: A measure of underwriting profitability calculated as the sum of incurred losses and expenses divided by earned premiums; below 100% indicates underwriting profit.
• Persistency: Percentage of insurance policies or contracts remaining in force over a specified period, reflecting retention and customer loyalty.
• Catastrophe (Cat) Losses: Insurance claims and losses resulting from large-scale events such as natural disasters; impacts profitability and volatility.
• GenAI (Generative Artificial Intelligence): A class of AI technologies that automate content creation or repetitive information-processing tasks to improve operational efficiency.
• Bonds—Book Yield vs. New Money Yield: Book yield is the existing average yield earned on a portfolio, while new money yield refers to the yield on newly purchased assets; the differential indicates potential for net investment income growth.

Full Conference Call Transcript

Marita Zuraitis: Thanks, Rachel, and good morning, everyone. Yesterday, Horace Mann Educators Corporation reported record third quarter core EPS of $1.36, a 64% increase over the prior year. Trailing twelve-month core return on equity has increased to 13.8%. These results clearly demonstrate the earnings power of our diversified business. On a year-to-date basis, we are now well ahead of our 2025 financial goals and on track for record core earnings, which generate strong shareholder return. Both top and bottom line results were strong. Total revenues for the quarter were up 6% over the prior year, with net premiums and contract charges earned up over 7%.

We delivered oversized growth in the Supplemental and Group Benefits segment, with individual supplemental sales up 40% and record sales in Group Benefits. In fact, sales are outpacing the prior year across all business lines. Given strong year-to-date outperformance, reflecting both underlying business performance as well as continued lower catastrophe losses, we are raising our full-year core EPS guidance to a range of $4.5 to $4.7. Ryan will provide more details on the full assumptions later in the call.

Today, I want to focus on the significant progress we are making towards our enterprise strategic priorities that position Horace Mann Educators Corporation for sustained, profitable growth over the long term. Most importantly, business profitability across all segments is in line with or above target levels, giving us the opportunity to accelerate investments in future growth. In Property and Casualty, the total combined ratio year-to-date is 91.4%, with an auto combined ratio of 96.4% in line with our mid-90s target. And in property, we continue to deliver exceptional results with a combined ratio of 83.1%, well below our target of 90 or below.

Property profitability is strong, reflecting both rate and non-rate actions we've taken to reduce earnings volatility and, to a larger degree, much lighter severe weather activity this year. For comparison, pretax catastrophe losses year-to-date are $56 million. Last year at this point, pretax catastrophe losses were $91 million.

In the Life and Retirement segment, we continue to see steady earnings growth driven by strong net investment income and effective spread management. Our core fixed income portfolio continues to benefit from strong new money yields. Year-to-date, the core new money yield is exceeding book yield by more than 100 basis points. In supplemental and group benefits, policyholder utilization continues to trend below historic levels. Our long-term target for this business is a 39% blended benefits ratio. Year-to-date, we are running around 37%, a strong position that enables us to invest confidently for growth. With each business segment performing in line with or above target, we're investing strategically to increase our share of the education market and drive future growth.

Lead generation continues to scale rapidly, with website visits up 120% year-over-year and online originated quotes nearly doubling. Our back-to-school celebration engaged tens of thousands of educators, with more than half of those participants new to Horace Mann Educators Corporation, an encouraging demonstration of increasing brand awareness.

We're seeing record recruiting success as we continue to grow points of distribution, adding exclusive agents, licensed producers, and benefit specialists as we expand local coverage and educator engagement. Through strategic partnerships, we are furthering our ability to reach more educators. A couple of examples: New partnerships with Teach For America and Grand Canyon University will provide us access to hundreds of thousands of educators to provide tailored solutions, including financial education resources, personalized support, teaching scholarships, student loan awareness programs, and community outreach. For example, with Teach For America, we recently launched educator financial wellness sessions as part of their career acceleration series. We're excited to see the impact of these partnerships along with our upcoming sponsorship of Crayola Creativity Week in January as we continue expanding our engagement with educators nationwide.

We continue to build on our integrated omni-channel approach to customer acquisition and service, allowing educators to engage with us when, where, and how they choose. These efforts are driving tangible results. Life and Retirement sales were exceptionally strong in the third quarter, fueled by the success of our back-to-school campaign. Life sales increased 16%, and retirement deposits grew 9%. Both impressive results in what is already a seasonally high quarter, highlighting the impact of our growth investments and brand momentum. In addition, we are accelerating growth in our Supplemental and Group Benefits segment, a high-margin, capital-efficient business that diversifies our earnings and reduces volatility.

Individual supplemental sales rose 40% for the quarter and 47% year-to-date, reflecting expanded distribution and deeper customer engagement driven by product enhancements that resonate with our core educator market. Over the past year, we have grown our network of benefit specialists who help educators understand and optimize their workplace benefits by nearly 30%. And we introduced our newest generation of cancer coverage, including new and enhanced benefits that best protect customers from the unexpected costs of cancer treatment. Group Benefits sales nearly doubled in the quarter and are up close to 20% year-to-date, reflecting encouraging growth in our network of like-minded broker partners.

As we invest in growth, we remain disciplined in optimizing enterprise spend. Our approach emphasizes efficiency, innovation, modernization, and continuous improvement across the organization. As part of these efforts, we're leveraging GenAI to identify and test multiple use cases that enhance productivity and effectiveness. For example, in partnership with our customer care team, we identified call summary notes as a low-value-add task where GenAI could enhance efficiency without sacrificing quality. By automating the process, which consumes 20% to 30% of a representative's day, we will be able to significantly reduce administrative burden. In our test, AI-generated call notes matched the accuracy and quality of human-authored notes, quantifying clear time savings and productivity gains.

As customer care historically has higher turnover than other departments, we expect to be able to realize expense savings organically through employee attrition. We continue to expand our framework for identifying, piloting, and deploying GenAI projects across the company to create further expense synergies and savings.

We're striking a balance between investing for future growth and maintaining expense discipline. We expect expense levels to be elevated in the near term as we build scale and execute on key initiatives that position us for long-term efficiency and sustained profitable growth. Before I turn the call over to Ryan, I want to highlight how our strong results are driving shareholder value creation. Over the past fifteen years, our Board of Directors has authorized $200 million in share repurchases, including a $50 million share repurchase authorization in May. Through October, we have returned $20 million of capital to shareholders through share repurchases and $43 million through dividends.

These actions reflect our disciplined capital management approach that balances profitable reinvestment in our business with consistent shareholder returns. This framework positions us to continue to maximize total shareholder return while maintaining flexibility to fund strategic growth, the most accretive use of capital over the long term.

To close, third quarter results were incredibly strong. All segments are operating in line with or above target profitability, and our multi-line business model continues to deliver consistent, high-quality earnings. On a year-to-date basis, we are clearly exceeding our 2025 objectives, and we are confident in our ability to achieve our long-term financial targets: a 10% average compound annual growth rate in core EPS and a sustained 12% to 13% core return on equity by 2028. Horace Mann Educators Corporation is operating from a position of strength, and our competitive advantages position us exceptionally well for sustained success. We are confident that we will continue to meet and exceed our strategic objectives, deliver sustained market-leading growth, and accelerate shareholder value creation. Thank you. And now I'll turn the call over to Ryan.

Ryan Edward Greenier: Thanks, Marita. Our record third quarter results reflect continued lower catastrophe costs, strong underlying performance, and encouraging growth momentum across the business. Given our strong year-to-date performance, we are accelerating strategic investments to build on this momentum and position Horace Mann Educators Corporation for sustained profitable growth. We are increasing our full-year 2025 core earnings per share guidance to a range of $4.5 to $4.7, which includes the following assumptions: roughly $65 million catastrophe losses assumed for the full year and total net investment income in the range of $473 million to $477 million, with managed portfolio income of $373 million to $377 million.

Reflecting our ongoing commitment to educators, we expect to make a significant donation in the range of $3 million to $7 million to the Horace Mann Educators Foundation in the fourth quarter. Thanks to our strong year-to-date business outperformance and by thoughtfully leveraging tax provisions under the big bill legislation, we're able to amplify our impact, aligning our financial strength with our mission to support educators and their students.

Turning to the results, core earnings of $57 million, or $1.36 per share, increased 64% over the prior year. Trailing twelve-month core return on equity was 13.8%, and tangible book value per share increased more than 9%, reflecting continued strong underlying profitability across the business. Total net premiums and contract charges earned were up 7%, with total revenues up 6%. In the Property Casualty segment, core earnings were $32 million, tripling year over year, primarily reflecting higher average earned premium. The P&C reported combined ratio of 87.8 improved 10.1 points over the prior year, reflecting much lower catastrophe costs, continued strong underlying results, and favorable prior year development.

The $3 million in prior year development was primarily driven by favorable property severity. Pretax catastrophe losses of $10 million were 71% below the prior year, due to lower claim frequency and severity as well as lack of hurricane activity. In auto, net written premiums of $132 million increased slightly over the prior year. The underlying combined ratio of 94.9 improved three points, primarily due to higher average premiums. Household retention decreased from the prior period to 84% but remained largely stable quarter over quarter. Retention remains in line with expectations given the current rate environment and continues to be in the top quartile relative to industry benchmarks.

Before I turn to property, I want to remind you that fourth quarter auto results historically have had higher frequency due to weather.

In property, net written premiums of $99 million increased 20% over the prior year, reflecting the continued benefit of rate actions on average written premium and solid growth momentum with sales up more than 8%. The combined ratio of 75.3 significantly improved over the prior year, primarily reflecting much lower catastrophe costs. Policyholder retention remained strong at nearly 89%. In Life and Retirement, core earnings were $15 million, in line with the prior year, and net written premiums and contract deposits rose to $170 million. As a reminder, our non-P&C annual actuarial assumption reviews were moved to the third quarter this year in line with industry practice.

Annual reviews reflected favorable mortality, which resulted in a $3.5 million decrease in reserves for life and a $5.4 million increase for retirement. Pretax, these actuarial assumption review impacts are GAAP only and non-cash and, as a result, have no impact on free cash flow. In the Life business, mortality was favorable for the quarter, and on a year-to-date basis, mortality costs continue to remain within our expected actuarial range. Life persistency remained strong, near 96%. In the Retirement business, net annuity contract deposits increased by 9%, and persistency rose to 92%.

Moving to supplemental and group benefits, this segment contributed $18 million to core earnings, in line with the prior year. Net written premiums rose to $66 million. Annual actuarial assumption reviews resulted in a $2.4 million decrease in reserves for individual supplemental pretax, reflecting favorable morbidity. In individual supplemental, net written premiums of $31 million increased 3% over the prior year. The benefits ratio of 25.4% decreased 2.4 points over the prior year, reflecting the impact of the actuarial assumption review in addition to favorable policyholder utilization trends. Policyholder persistency remains steady near 90%. In Group Benefits, net written premiums of $35 million increased 8% over the prior year.

The benefits ratio of 35.7% was below the prior year, primarily due to favorable policyholder utilization in disability products.

Turning to investments, total net investment income on the managed portfolio increased nearly 11% over the prior year. We continue to see very strong results from our core fixed income portfolio, reflecting the benefit of higher average yields. This is the fifteenth consecutive quarter that new money yields in the core portfolio have exceeded book yield. Limited partnership returns outpaced the prior year, driven primarily by equity-related funds, and we continue to see stable returns from commercial mortgage loan funds. As I mentioned earlier, with each business segment performing in line with or above profitability targets, we are investing strategically to position Horace Mann Educators Corporation for sustained profitable growth.

Sales are outpacing the prior year across all business lines, and we delivered outsized growth in the Supplemental and Group Benefits segment. Third quarter individual supplemental sales were $6 million, a 40% increase over the prior year, and Group Benefits delivered record sales of $6 million, nearly double the prior year result. As we've mentioned before, the group business is still relatively small, so results will fluctuate from quarter to quarter. We're encouraged by the growth momentum as we continue to scale this segment.

As Marita mentioned, as we invest in growth, we remain diligent about optimizing enterprise spend. In addition to our ongoing enterprise focus on leveraging GenAI, we've made the business decision to terminate our legacy dormant pension plan. We expect to finalize the transaction in the fourth quarter. This will be a non-core charge and will result in ongoing run-rate savings of over $1 million annually, pretax. While our expense ratio remains competitive with peers, we do expect expense levels to be elevated in the near term as we build scale and execute on our longer-term financial goals. We will use periods of business outperformance to reinvest some of that success into initiatives that will drive future growth.

Building scale is a key component of our plan to reduce the expense ratio by about 1.5 points over the next three years, and these investments are essential to achieving that goal.

Before I close, I'd also like to touch on the prudent capital management actions we took this quarter. In September, we issued $300 million of senior notes due in 2030 at a 4.7% coupon. Proceeds were used to refinance near-term maturities, with the balance allocated for general corporate purposes. The transaction had very strong investor demand and was more than five times oversubscribed. As a result, we achieved a record tight spread for Horace Mann Educators Corporation. We remain focused on driving shareholder value creation. Our dividend yield is strong, and we continue to opportunistically execute on our share buyback program.

October year-to-date, we've repurchased 470,000 shares at a total cost of about $20 million at an average price of $41.7. We have around $57 million remaining on our current share repurchase authorization.

In conclusion, third quarter results reflect the strength and stability of our diversified business. On a year-to-date basis, we are clearly exceeding our 2025 objectives, and we are confident in our ability to achieve our long-term financial targets: a 10% average compound annual growth rate in core earnings per share and a sustainable 12% to 13% core return on equity by 2028. We are confident that we will continue to meet and exceed our strategic objectives, deliver sustained market-leading growth, and accelerate shareholder value creation. Thank you. Operator, we're ready for questions.

Operator: We will now begin the question and answer session. The first question comes from Michael Zaremski with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Jack (for Michael Zaremski): Hey, good morning. It's Jack on for Mike. The first question is just on your organic policy count growth trajectory, especially in P&C operations. It's good to see retention stabilizing in auto, and margins are at healthy levels, which I imagine implies less of a need to increase rates. So just, I guess, in light of that, wondering how you view the growth outlook on a policy count basis over the coming quarters in both auto and home?

Marita Zuraitis: Yes. It's a great question, but I think I might expand it a little bit. When we think about growth, we don't really think about it as an on-and-off switch. We are always focused on educator household increase and that goal of sustained profitable growth. When we look at this quarter, I think it's a clear reflection that we have sales momentum across every business. Business for us is up across all our business, and retention has been steady. If you look at individual supplemental, up 41%, group up 91%, life's up 16%, retirements up 9%, properties up 8%, autos hanging in there up 4%.

And then you look at the retention side of the equation where property is nearly 90%, life retirement supplemental in the mid to high nineties persistency. Auto is strong at 84%. Obviously, you see the effects of the increased competition across the industry there. But we are very well positioned for that sustained household growth that we're focused on and feel good that we're clearly going in the direction when you see these kinds of results across all the businesses.

Jack (for Michael Zaremski): Great. And thank you. And then I'll just follow-up on maybe look at two-parter, but just a follow-up on the EPS guidance. It implies, I think, sort of the low dollar range in the fourth quarter, a little bit $1.3 this quarter. I guess, just wondering if you could help us walk through the moving pieces. I guess there's the kind of net assumption review this quarter. I think you called it auto margin seasonality being less stable in the fourth quarter. Then also accelerating some strategic investments. And on that last one, can you able to quantify or elaborate more on some of those investments that you're planning to accelerate over the coming quarters?

Ryan Edward Greenier: Sure. This is Ryan. I appreciate the question. This morning, when I think about the updated guidance range that we gave you, $4.5 to $4.7 on a full-year basis, it implies $1 to 1.2 for the fourth quarter. We updated our cat assumption to reflect year-to-date outperformance. We narrowed the net investment income to the midpoint of the original range. And we did increase the corporate and other expenses by $5 million that reflects known spend. We talked about the foundation donation that we're excited to fund in the fourth quarter. In addition to that, when we think about guidance, we are reflecting our intent to continue to invest in growing our business.

I'll flag for you that the fourth quarter last year was an unusually strong quarter. It was $1.68, and it had a number of one-time items that we don't expect to repeat. So last year, fourth quarter, we had favorable property prior year development, which was worth about a quarter. In our non-P&C operations, we did our annual reserve assumption review, and we had some prior year favorable development in group, and that was worth over 30¢. And we had very favorable weather, both cat and non-cat was quite favorable. So on a normalized basis, I think about the fourth quarter last year as being about a dollar.

And if you think about the mid of our guide, that's a 10% earnings growth rate, which is what we talked about achieving at Investor Day.

Marita Zuraitis: Yeah. And Ryan touched on expenses a little bit, but if I could expand on that. I mean, we're clearly striking a balance here between investing for the future while also maintaining expense discipline. And we think about it as both sides of the equation, both the numerator as well as the denominator. The numerator, obviously, through efficiency, and the denominator by investing in growth to build scale. Because both are clearly important. I don't think any company can shrink their way to greatness. Right? So both of those sides of that equation matter. On the expense discipline side, our leadership realignment, efficiency in high turnover areas, that result in headcount reductions over time.

Ryan mentioned in the script the legacy pension termination. Our review of vendor spend, process improvements like straight-through process. We're really focused on driving that efficiency. But at the same time, I think it's also important for us to invest in growth to grow to drive scale. Especially in times of outperformance like this. And at Investor Day, we talked about our goal to reduce the expense ratio by a point and a half. But, again, that's over the next three years, and we're confident that we can do that.

And I think if you look at our track record, over the last several years that we've as we've invested in the PDI, the products that are relevant, in our educator space, expanding our distribution, which we're obviously doing, and modernizing our infrastructure, we have done that and continue to do that while we maintain expense discipline. So I think it positions us very well for sustained profitable growth. And I think our track record speaks for itself.

Jack (for Michael Zaremski): Thank you.

Operator: The next question comes from John Barnidge with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

John Barnidge: Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is on supplemental and group benefits. Lead management systems are increasingly required to get on the platform, and we're seeing a lot of investment over group benefit providers in the market. Can you talk about your capabilities, whether building your own lead management system or getting something out of the box, and really how important that is to winning business in supplemental and group benefits for a core educator marketplace? Thank you.

Marita Zuraitis: John, great question, and it's a little bit of both. I want you to think about our individual supplemental and group benefits business a little bit differently. Obviously, we have a head start in individual supplemental, and you're seeing those very strong sustained numbers come through on the individual supplemental side. In the group supplemental side, it's new for us. It's relatively small for us. We feel really good about the progress we're making, and you saw that in this quarter as well. That can be a little more lumpy for us because it is small. But we look at that year-to-date number and that track record of that sustained growth in that area.

And we are making investments not only in lead generation but in expanding our distribution and building the product necessary for that space as well as modernizing the infrastructure to do that and do it well. And I feel really good about our progress there. But we're in this for the long haul. And that will take us longer to build all those pieces. But we're really happy with our start here. We're focusing on where we're good in our educator segment, and I think we're doing it really well with some really strong partners.

Ryan Edward Greenier: You know, and the thing I will add, John, you know, we do have a lead management partner in place. So to answer your question directly, you know, we do have the capabilities with an experienced partner.

John Barnidge: Thanks for that answer. And then my other question, more and more insurers have launched partnerships with alternative asset managers not just to monetize their distribution but to better position spread-related products and enhance net investment income. I know you do externalize some asset management function, but is there an opportunity for a larger partnership here with a dedicated alternative asset manager? Thank you.

Ryan Edward Greenier: John, I appreciate your question. You know, when I think about what we've built from an investment management capability over the past five years, you know, we talked about over that period improving net investment income by over 30%. We mentioned that at Investor Day. And yes, rates were created opportunity over that time period, but we were very thoughtful about the third-party partners that we work with on an ongoing basis. You know, we've made some changes to those partners recently, and we believe in that sort of best-of-breed model in finding, you know, core portfolio managers that do the bulk, if you will, of our liability-driven investment strategy.

But at the same time, supplementing them with specialized managers in certain verticals. So while I understand the nature of your question, I like our approach of going out and getting best in breed. And allowing us to really diversify our asset management partnership. So hopefully, that answers your question.

John Barnidge: Yep. I was also talking about maybe product creation. There's some regulatory reform in retirement accounts. Interval funds or Evergreen funds have increasingly become more in demand and valued by distribution. So do you have those capabilities? Are you looking to build those capabilities? Thank you.

Ryan Edward Greenier: So when I think about tailoring products, John, to our customer set, the educator marketplace is a relatively conservative investor. They prefer fixed and fixed index products. Even within our variable annuity sleeve, there's a fair amount of fixed account selection. We also distribute through captive distribution. And so when I think about marrying the product design to the distribution to the end customer, a lot of those more exotic, if you will, or newer product entrants aren't really what our customer base is asking for at this point in time. And you can see our retirement sales were up 9% in the third quarter. So we're seeing strong customer reception to the product set that we have.

Marita Zuraitis: Yeah. Ryan's right. We're really not hearing from our registered reps out there working with our customers or even from the educators themselves that our affinity niche is looking for that. But yet we see what's going on with Ryler products and other things in the industry. And if we felt there was a need, we could leverage a really good third party to offer that, or we build it ourselves, but there's no demand for that in our market segment right now.

John Barnidge: Thanks for the answers.

Operator: The next question comes from Wilma Burdis with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Wilma Burdis: Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Cat losses this year were $65 million versus I think you guys expected $90 million kind of coming into the year. And we also realized that two things have happened. It's been a low activity year, but also you have a lot of catastrophe mitigation efforts that you've been rolling out. So could you just help us think through that? How effective has the program been? And what are you just into '26? I know you may not be able to give an exact answer. Thanks.

Ryan Edward Greenier: Hey Wilma, this is Ryan. Thank you for the question. As a reminder, our original guide in 2025 was $90 million of catastrophe losses. And you're right, we in the industry have experienced a good catastrophe weather year. From a cap perspective, this year was more than one standard deviation below our historic averages. But when I think about cat losses, and I think about the book, every year you grow your total insured value. So as we continue to grow the property book, the value that is exposed and that we get premium off of continues to grow. So you'd expect an increase in average model losses as a result of that.

Candidly, offsetting this, though, is the non-rate actions that we took, like the deductibles group schedule changes. We believe they are working as designed and we're seeing the benefits. But in a light cat year, it's kind of hard to prove out the full magnitude of what you would expect. But we're seeing encouraging signs. When I look ahead to 2026, while we don't have official guidance out, I would not expect a significant decline in actual total cat dollar losses in 2026.

Wilma Burdis: Understood. And, you know, I guess this kind of ties into my first question, but could you talk a little bit more about normalized P&C earnings into '26 between that and between the cat loss mitigation efforts and the effects of rate increases that you're taking and seeing right now? Thanks.

Ryan Edward Greenier: Sure, Wilma. We talk about our long-term targets and what we're striving to maintain in our P&C business. And we give you two targets. We talk about a mid-90s combined for auto, and we talk about a prop wanting to run property at or below 90, to account for the increased volatility just inherent in the property business. We are at target profitability and better than that in property. And when I think about the loss trends going forward in the rate plan, we are targeting a mid-single-digit rate plan in auto for next year that's in line with loss trend expectations and a high single-digit rate increase. So think about that as rate and inflation guard.

So the increase in insured value for and that's for property. And that's a little bit ahead of our loss trends. But, you know, that should keep us on track to maintain those profitability targets within P&C.

Marita Zuraitis: Yes. But I also think it's important, and I want to magnify what Ryan said about cats. It wouldn't be prudent for any of us to assume that this year will repeat. The only way you can do this right is to rely on the math. Looking at five and ten-year averages, looking at probabilistic and deterministic models, all blended to give you a cat estimate in any given time frame and year. Obviously, the recency of this year is great for the industry and good for us, but it wouldn't make sense for us to assume that a year like this is going to repeat. It'll obviously be factored into all the numbers.

But I think the only thing anybody knows about cats is you're gonna be wrong with your estimate, so you really have to rely on your math to determine that number. And, obviously, building values are up. Insured values are up. We're larger as an organization, so I wouldn't expect that our forecasted cats, you know, would be going down next year as Ryan clearly said.

Wilma Burdis: Thank you, and congrats on a great quarter.

Marita Zuraitis: Obviously, we'll discuss this with our guidance as we normally would in our normal course, you know, when we have our next call.

Ryan Edward Greenier: Yeah. I appreciate the questions, Wilma. Thank you.

Operator: This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Rachel Luber for any closing remarks.

Rachel Luber: Thank you for joining us today. If you have any additional questions or would like to schedule a meeting, please reach out to the Investor Relations team. Have a great day.

This article is a transcript of this conference call produced for The Motley Fool. While we strive for our Foolish Best, there may be errors, omissions, or inaccuracies in this transcript. Parts of this article were created using Large Language Models (LLMs) based on The Motley Fool's insights and investing approach. It has been reviewed by our AI quality control systems. Since LLMs cannot (currently) own stocks, it has no positions in any of the stocks mentioned. As with all our articles, The Motley Fool does not assume any responsibility for your use of this content, and we strongly encourage you to do your own research, including listening to the call yourself and reading the company's SEC filings. Please see our Terms and Conditions for additional details, including our Obligatory Capitalized Disclaimers of Liability.

The Motley Fool has no position in any of the stocks mentioned. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.