Smith Douglas (SDHC) Q4 2025 Earnings Transcript

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DATE

Wednesday, March 11, 2026 at 8:30 a.m. ET

CALL PARTICIPANTS

• Chief Executive Officer — Greg Bennett
• Chief Financial Officer — Russ Devendorf

TAKEAWAYS

• Home Deliveries -- 780 homes delivered with $260 million in revenue and an average sales price of $334,000.
• Gross Margin -- Home closing gross margin stood at 19.9%, down from 25.5% in the prior year period; adjusted gross margin was 21%.
• Incentive Rate -- Incentives averaged 6.8% of base price, increasing approximately 70 basis points sequentially from Q3, reflecting actions taken to sustain sales pace.
• Net Income -- Net income was $17 million, or $0.39 per diluted share; adjusted net income was $12.8 million assuming a standard C corporation tax rate.
• SG&A Expense -- Selling, general, and administrative expense totaled $36 million, or 13.8% of revenue, compared to 14.9% in the prior-year quarter.
• New Orders -- 532 net new orders were recorded; full-year net new orders reached 2,726, a 3% increase with an average order price of $333,000.
• Backlog -- 512 homes remained in backlog at an average sales price of $337,000, totaling approximately $173 million in value.
• Community Count -- Active communities rose 28% to 100, reflecting continued expansion; several counted communities have not yet opened full models.
• Build Time -- Company-wide build times averaged 57 days, including ongoing operational improvements in the Houston division.
• Balance Sheet -- Year-end cash was $12.7 million, notes payable were $44.1 million, total equity was $444 million, and debt-to-book capitalization was 9%.
• Land Pipeline -- Controlled lots increased 14% to approximately 22,300, with most under option contracts consistent with the company’s land-light strategy.
• Q1 2026 Guidance -- Projected closings of 575-625 homes, average sales price in the $330,000-$335,000 range, and gross margin forecast between 17.5%-18%.
• SG&A Details -- Decline in incentive compensation versus prior year drove SG&A expense leverage; new division investments contributed to overall SG&A levels.
• Spec Inventory -- About half of current inventory is spec homes, managed to support production targets as backlog and presales remain below preferred levels.
• Operational Philosophy -- Management reiterated a 'pace over price' approach, accepting margin compression to sustain volume and preserve market share.

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RISKS

• Russ Devendorf said, "the macroeconomic environment remains uncertain. Recent economic data has shown mixed signals and geopolitical developments continue to create volatility across global markets."
• Management cited continued "affordability pressures and higher mortgage rates" as drivers of a recessionary housing market for the past 18 months.
• "primary risk to our outlook remain tied to broader macroeconomic conditions, including mortgage rates, consumer confidence and employment trends."
• Land costs for 2026 are expected to increase, with Russ Devendorf stating, "We're definitely seeing land costs increase in '26 from what we expect in our budget and closing."

SUMMARY

Management attributed the year-over-year decline in revenue and margin to increased use of incentives and closing cost assistance, designed to sustain pace in a weaker demand environment. Operational priorities focus on rapid build cycles and a high mix of spec inventory to match sales absorption with production capacity. The company is actively expanding into new markets and divisions, which has added to current SG&A costs before anticipated revenue scaling. No full-year 2026 guidance was issued, reflecting elevated macro-level uncertainty and volatility in buyer confidence and mortgage rates.

• Greg Bennett described targeted leadership changes and operational adjustments, such as the appointment of Scott Bowles as Regional President, to accelerate strategic expansion in the Southeast.
• Houston division build times have "significantly improved" since the 2023 acquisition, supporting the company's confidence in replicating its operating model outside the Southeastern core.
• Incentives calculation includes closing cost incentive, base price discounts, and forward commitment costs, all factored together into the reported 6.8% rate.
• Management is seeing early signs of land price resetting in new deals, though at "slightly" higher costs for land currently being closed, with the pace of market relief described as gradual.
• Forward-looking capital allocation will prioritize land pipeline investment and community growth, with opportunistic share repurchases considered when shares trade below management's intrinsic value estimate.

INDUSTRY GLOSSARY

• Spec Home: A home built without a specific buyer in advance, typically sold after or near completion.
• Finished Lot Takedown: A land acquisition model where the builder purchases completed, infrastructure-ready lots in phases instead of in bulk, aligning construction starts with sales pace.
• Forward Commitment Cost: The financial cost incurred for securing interest rates for buyers in advance, used as a sales incentive in homebuilding.
• Land-Light Strategy: A strategic approach emphasizing minimal direct land ownership by controlling land through options or takedown agreements to reduce capital risk and increase flexibility.

Full Conference Call Transcript

Greg Bennett: Good morning, and thank you for joining us today as we go over our results for the fourth quarter of 2025 and provide an update on our operations here early in 2026. Smith Douglas Homes delivered 780 homes in the fourth quarter, resulting in $260 million in revenue. Home closing gross margin came in at 19.9% and net income for the quarter was $17 million or $0.39 per diluted share. For the full year 2025, we delivered 2,908 homes, a record for our company and produced earnings of $1.19 per diluted share.

Despite a difficult demand environment across much of the industry, we were still able to grow deliveries during the year, which we believe reflects the strength of our operating model and the discipline of our teams in the field. Overall, we're pleased with our performance to close out the year as our delivery total and gross margin came in above our previously guided range. We generated 532 net new orders for the fourth quarter as sales conditions remain choppy to end the year.

While maintaining sales pace remains important to us, we chose to remain disciplined in how aggressively we pursued sales during the quarter as the combination of seasonal slowness and aggressive year-end discounting from some competitors created a difficult selling environment. Buyers continue to weigh the benefits of homeownership against their concerns over affordability, which remains a persistent challenge for the buyers despite our leading price points. Financing incentives remained an important tool in alleviating those concerns and solving for monthly payment to fit our buyers' needs.

So far this year, we've seen encouraging uptick in traffic and our order activity relative to fourth quarter's levels and continue to actively manage incentives at community level in order to support the sales pace. While we are optimistic that this improvement can carry into the spring selling season, demand continues to remain somewhat inconsistent from week to week. As we wait to see how the remainder of the spring selling season unfolds, we continue to fine-tune our operations in each of our markets through our disciplined approach to our business.

Company-wide build times came in at 57 days for the quarter, which includes our Houston division, where we made great strides in implementing our R-team philosophy and aligning the local trades and subcontractors to our streamlined building process. We have significantly improved our cycle times in Houston since entering the market via acquisition in 2023 and view it as proof that our disciplined approach to homebuilding can be replicated in markets outside of the historical Southeastern footprint. Our long-term goal is to continue to grow volume and gain market share via targeted investment through our footprint and opportunistically in new markets as we believe scale is a key driver of success in this business.

We know that our path to higher volumes will not be linear, but instead will reflect the natural ebbs and flows of the housing cycle. As we've discussed before, we operate the business with a long-term mindset focused on maintaining pace and positioning the company for growth through the cycle rather than managing the business around short-term quarterly outcomes. Russ will expand on that philosophy in more detail in his remarks. Spearheading many of the company's growth initiatives will be Scott Bowles, our new Regional President for the Southeast. Scott has been with the company since 2017 and most recently served as our Atlanta Division President, where he's instrumental in expanding our presence and profitability in this key homebuilding market.

We look forward to Scott making a similar impact in his new expanded leadership role. While near-term conditions remain uncertain, the long-term outlook for housing remains compelling as the United States continues to face a structural housing shortage. Our focus remains on building affordable homes in markets experiencing strong population growth and job creation. Our value proposition includes the level of personalization that many builders do not offer at our price point, combined with the build time that few competitors can match. We remain disciplined when it comes to land ownership and leverage and believe that, that combination of affordability, operational discipline and a conservative balance sheet positions us well for long-term success.

Our strategy remains straightforward, maintain discipline through the cycle, protect our production engine and continue to expand our community base in attractive markets. We believe this approach positions us well to continue to gain market share over time. Finally, I'd like to thank all of our team members for their continued hard work and commitment to our company's goals. With that, I'll turn the call over to Russ.

Russ Devendorf: Thanks, Greg. I'll highlight our results for the fourth quarter and full year and then conclude my remarks with our outlook for the first quarter. We finished the fourth quarter with $260 million in revenue, a 9% decrease over the year ago period on 780 closings with an average sales price of $334,000. Our home closing gross margin was 19.9% compared to 25.5% in the fourth quarter of 2024. Excluding impairment charges and interest in cost of sales, our adjusted gross margin was 21% for the quarter. Incentives as a percentage of base prices averaged approximately 6.8% during the fourth quarter, up roughly 70 basis points sequentially, reflecting our efforts to maintain sales pace in a challenging affordability environment.

SG&A expense for the quarter was $36 million or approximately 13.8% of revenue compared to 14.9% of revenue in the fourth quarter of '24. Pretax income for the quarter was $16.9 million compared to $30 million in the prior year period, reflecting the impact of increased incentives and closing cost assistance used to support affordability and maintain sales pace in a softer demand environment. Net income for the quarter was $17 million. Given the nature of our Up-C organizational structure, our reported net income reflects the allocation of earnings between Smith Douglas Home score and the noncontrolling interest of Smith Douglas Holdings LLC.

Because a significant portion of our earnings is attributable to LLC members not taxed at the corporate level, the income tax impact reflected in our financial statements can differ from more traditional C corporations. For that reason, we also present adjusted net income, which assumes a 24.6% blended federal and state effective tax rate as if we operate it as a fully public C corporation. Adjusted net income was $12.8 million for the fourth quarter compared to $22.7 million in the same period last year. For the full year 2025, we delivered 2,908 homes, representing a 1% increase over 2024 and marking another record year for closings for the company.

Revenue for the year was $971 million, essentially flat with the prior year as the modest increase in closings was offset by a lower average sales price of $334,000 compared to $340,000 in 2024. Home closing gross margin for the year was 21.8% compared to 26.2% in 2024. Excluding impairment charges and interest and cost of sales, our adjusted gross margin was 22.3%. The margin compression year-over-year was primarily driven by increased incentives and closing cost assistance used to support affordability and maintain sales pace in what has been a challenging housing environment over roughly the past 18 months. SG&A expense for the year was $139.8 million or approximately 14.4% of revenue compared to 14% in 2024.

Pretax income for the year was $70.9 million compared to $116.9 million in 2024 and adjusted net income was $53.5 million compared to $88.1 million in the prior year. Importantly, despite the difficult demand environment across the housing sector, we were able to grow closings during the year, while many builders across the industry experienced declining volumes. We believe this reflects the strength of our operating model and our ability to maintain sales pace while continuing to expand our community base. Net new home orders for the year were 2,726 homes, a 3% increase compared to 2024 with an average order price of $333,000.

We ended the year with 512 homes in backlog with an average sales price of $337,000, representing a backlog value of approximately $173 million. Our active community count increased 28% to 100 communities compared to 78 communities at the end of 2024, reflecting continued expansion across our footprint. Total controlled lots increased 14% to approximately 22,300 lots, with the vast majority control through option contracts consistent with our land-light strategy, which provides flexibility while allowing us to grow in our attractive southern markets. Turning to the balance sheet. We ended the year with $12.7 million in cash and $44.1 million of notes payable. Total equity was $444 million, and our debt-to-book capitalization was 9%.

On a net basis, net debt to net book capitalization was 6.6%, reflecting our continued conservative approach to leverage and maintaining a strong balance sheet as we continue to grow the platform. Before discussing guidance, I'd like to spend a moment discussing our pace over price operating philosophy, which is a central part of how we manage the business through the housing cycle. Our production model is designed to operate at a steady, consistent pace with relatively short construction cycle times and strong presale orientation. That production engine is the core of our operating model and protecting that engine is what ultimately drives long-term value creation.

Homebuilding is inherently cyclical, and during periods of weaker demand, we believe the right strategy is to prioritize absorption and inventory turns rather than maximizing price in the short term. In practical terms, that means we may intentionally accept some margin compression during downturns in order to maintain sales velocity and keep homes moving through the pipeline. Maintaining volume stability allows us to preserve market share, convert inventory and continue investing in future communities and land opportunities as land prices reset. Importantly, this is not about managing the business for a single quarter, we are managing the company for full cycle value creation.

When the cycle eventually improves, the ability to maintain volume and continue investing during the downturn often leads to stronger margins and higher cumulative earnings over time. From an operational standpoint, our current environment is not constrained by production capacity. Our construction engine is operating near optimal levels. The primary challenge today is aligning sales absorption with that production capacity, which is why maintaining pace remains a priority. Because of that dynamic, we continue to evaluate pricing and incentives week-to-week at the community level, and incentives remain an important tool to support affordability and ensure we maintain the sales pace necessary to keep our production engine operating efficiently.

The bottom line is that we are protecting the production engine because that is what compounds value over the housing cycle. While demand conditions remain variable week-to-week, the early year improvement in absorption is a positive signal as we move into the spring selling season. At the same time, we continue to evaluate pricing and incentives carefully across our communities, and we'll adjust them as needed to maintain a pace supportive of our operating model. From a broader macro perspective, the housing market has been operating in what we would characterize as a recessionary environment for roughly the past 18 months, primarily driven by affordability pressures and higher mortgage rates. Looking ahead, the macroeconomic environment remains uncertain.

Recent economic data has shown mixed signals and geopolitical developments continue to create volatility across global markets. We are also monitoring labor market trends closely, including last week's employment report, which showed some signs of job softness. While the labor market remains generally healthy, employment trends are an important driver of housing demand and something we will continue to watch carefully. Finally, given the recent performance of our stock, we believe the current valuation presents an opportunity to opportunistically repurchase shares under our existing buyback authorization. With that said, I want to reiterate that our capital allocation priorities remain unchanged. We will continue to prioritize investing in our land pipeline and community growth while maintaining a conservative balance sheet.

However, when market conditions allow, and we believe our shares are trading below intrinsic value, share repurchases can represent an attractive and disciplined use of capital. For the first quarter of 2026, we currently expect closings between 575 and 625 homes, average sales price between $330,000 and $335,000 and gross margin between 17.5% and 18%. Given the continued variability in demand conditions, we are not providing full year guidance at this time. We believe the primary risk to our outlook remain tied to broader macroeconomic conditions, including mortgage rates, consumer confidence and employment trends.

We are confident that our competitively priced product portfolio land-light approach, efficient operational framework and growing community footprint will enable us to further increase our market share in the future. I'd now like to turn the call over to the operator for instructions on Q&A.

Operator: [Operator Instructions] And your first question comes from the line of Michael Rehaut with JPMorgan.

Nisarg Kalra: This is actually Nick Kalra on for Michael. First, I would love to get any color that you might be able to provide on sales pace as well as pricing and incentives, trends translating to both of those factors so far in 1Q to the extent that you can, that would be great.

Russ Devendorf: Sure. It really followed traditional seasonal patterns. So January, a little bit slower, picked up in February and the last couple of weeks here to begin in the month of March trended even a little bit higher. So trending in the right direction. Our community count is up pretty good year-over-year. We were up roughly 28% year-over-year. On a per community basis, it's slightly down year-over-year, but some of that is just also the way we count communities. So we've got -- I don't have the exact number, but we've got several communities in that 100 community count number that don't yet have full models and we're preselling.

So I wouldn't necessarily look or consider so much kind of the absorption pace year-over-year. I think it still feels pretty good, even though the absolute numbers may look a little flattish or even down on a pace. But again, like I said, that's more about I think just the way we're counting communities a little bit. But yes, the trends so far for spring selling season have continued to move up. And -- but like we said in the prepared remarks, it's inconsistent. We don't see enough of weekly trends yet to say, hey, things are great. But so far, so good.

Nisarg Kalra: All right. That's helpful. And then secondly, I would like to -- would you call out any trends, any areas of relative strengths and weaknesses across any of your major markets? Any color there would be helpful.

Greg Bennett: Yes. I think there's a lot of similarities in our markets. And they all seem to be pacing. And as Russ spoke to, our trending on seasonality seems to be pretty consistent across all those markets. We've got some new markets just starting off. But as you said, we've got models that are not yet open that we're counting a number of communities in that we're hopeful once models are open, those markets will be at the same pace as well.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Mike Dahl with RBC Capital Markets.

Michael Dahl: Just to follow up on the 1Q dynamics. I mean you talked about maybe stepping back from some of the aggressive behavior in fourth quarter. But based on your margin guide for 1Q, it seems like you may have then leaned back in and hence the conversation about your prioritization of price. But can you just talk a little bit more about what's driving the decisions there? Like what's driving you to lean back into incentives? And can you characterize relative to the 6.8% that was in the 4Q closings, you're guiding to a meaningful step down in gross margins in 1Q. What is the assumed incentive load?

And what are the other moving pieces around land costs and other dynamics?

Russ Devendorf: Yes. Thanks for the question. So remember, a lot of what we were selling in Q4 is going to close in Q1. So we leaned a lot heavier into incentives in 4Q. With some of the uptick that we're seeing in traffic and it's -- and again, don't get me wrong. I mean, it's -- we are seeing an uptick sequentially, but it's the traditional spring selling season that we've hit. So it's a good trend, right? It's moving in the right direction. And -- but we continue to monitor it on a division-by-division and community-by-community basis. And so we're looking where we can maximize some margins, pull back on incentives. But then again, we're not going to sacrifice pace.

And so as long as we continue to get the pace, then we'll -- that's going to be our -- where we decide to moderate incentives. And so yes, we're looking probably sequentially at about 100, 150 basis points just in the closings. But again, it's -- and when you look at what we're doing from an incentives on sales, I think it's -- we're seeing a similar trend from Q4 to Q1 and kind of the incentives. But the one thing I would add is forward commitments, the cost of forwards has come down with the rate environment. So that's good, and that will help us a bit.

But we're also looking at just reducing or discounting base prices to get an attractive number out there. For us, it's definitely about payment. We are seeing with our new communities coming online, that the average sales prices are coming down. And so that's -- we're also looking at bringing some smaller product online. And so that's also impacting a bit of the sales price and margins. But at the end of the day, we are focused on getting a pace. And as Greg and I mentioned on the prepared remarks, operationally, things are running very smoothly. We want to keep our trades busy. That's -- we think that's a competitive advantage, keeping pace, keeping trades busy.

But in order for us to keep building, we've got to keep selling. And so again, we're going to continue to monitor it from an incentive, whatever we can do to keep that pace. And we really want to get back to a presale orientation. This market has been really very spec heavy. That reflects a lot of what our competitors are doing. We're still not seeing resale competition come back in any meaningful way. Traditionally, resales are always our biggest competitor, but that's not the case. But yes, so we're -- it's still hand-to-hand combat. Hopefully, that gives you a little bit of color.

Michael Dahl: Yes, that's helpful, Russ. I guess one more clarification and then a cleanup question. Just on the -- since you're -- it seems like you may draw a distinction between the base price reductions and the incentives. Can you just clarify the 6.8% and then going up 150 basis points, is that inclusive of both price reductions and financial incentives? Or is that just the -- okay. And then the...

Russ Devendorf: Yes, that includes everything. Yes, so just to be clear, what we're counting in that 6.8% is closing cost incentive, price discounts and forward commitment costs. And so forward commitment costs and price discounts are contra revenue. So they show as an offset to revenue. Closing costs are sitting in cost of sales, but we add those up to give you a 6.8% number.

Michael Dahl: Okay. Good. The cleanup question I had, SG&A, was there anything unusual in the quarter? Because you have been -- your revenues are running down. Your SG&A as a percentage of revenues in most recent quarter has been running up year-on-year. So it was a little surprising to see like a year-on-year decline in percentage of sales. Was there anything kind of onetime in nature around true-ups or things like that?

Russ Devendorf: Yes. The biggest driver -- we fully expect to continue to get SG&A leverage. And obviously, that's part of pushing scale. But right now, we've got a few things pushing SG&A higher where we're not getting the kind of a matching revenue. So when we've opened up our new division, so we've got G&A, SG&A costs coming through in Dallas-Fort Worth. Greenville is still getting off the ground. We opened up Gulf Coast, and then we've divisionalized a couple of -- we took Atlanta. Atlanta was getting too big. And so we've divisionalized Chattanooga out of the Atlanta division. And then about 18 months ago, we divisionalized Middle Georgia.

So we've got a little bit more G&A, SG&A running through the business as we've continued to expand the footprint that once we get up and running at full capacity in those divisions, we should start to see better overhead leverage.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Rafe Jadrosich with Bank of America.

Rafe Jadrosich: Just following up on the last question that Mike asked. The SG&A dollars on a year-over-year basis are down, I think it's $7 million year-over-year, and there was like quite a bit of leverage. Just is there like an incentive comp that came down in the fourth quarter that then -- that we should be thinking about reversing as we look at '26? Just wondering if there's any -- because obviously, I understand the things that are driving it up, but there was a lot of leverage in the fourth quarter. I'm just wondering what drove that?

Russ Devendorf: Yes. Yes. No, you hit it on the head. You're hitting a very good pain point for us. We more than -- in prior year, we more than hit target on bonuses. So our incentive compensation was higher in the prior year. And then this year, we did not hit target. So it was about half of what our target incentive comp. So that's a good point. I think kind of to Mike's -- and I probably didn't address it 100% accurately. But yes, we had some incentive comp come down. But then the offset to that was the new divisions that were not fully operational.

Rafe Jadrosich: Okay. That helps. And then in terms of -- in the past, you've given some really helpful color on what you're seeing in terms of land inflation, like what you expect to be flowing through the P&L. Can you just help us like how we should think about '26? And then for land that you're contracting today, are you starting to see like sort of relief or prices to come down or stabilize? And like when will that start to be maybe a tailwind to the margins?

Russ Devendorf: Yes. We're definitely seeing land costs increase in '26 from what we expect in our budget and closing. Now again, that's because we're closing on stuff that's got a basis that -- and acquisitions that we've had over the last 2, 3 years, right? So you still got some higher costs flowing through there. That said, any deals -- and again, we look at this on a deal-by-deal basis. We look at our takedowns. We go back to developer partners where we can and try and renegotiate because, look, it's -- no doubt, when we did some of these deals, the market was different. I think our developers understand that. And so in some cases, we are able to renegotiate.

So we are seeing more of that happen. Joe is going to kind of look at the cost, but giving you maybe a specific number on what we think land cost as a percentage of revenue will look like in '26, but it will be up slightly. And then just on new deals, new acquisitions that we're seeing, we're definitely seeing a reset happen. We'd love it to happen faster, and we love it to happen at deeper discounts, but folks are getting more realistic. So we are starting to see a reset.

And again, that's why we talk about continuing to push pace because if we're not outselling and moving inventory, well, then we're not outbuying and we're not going to be taking advantage of the price reset, right? So that's why we think it's really important to continue to push pace through this cycle because it will -- we'll continue to keep our market share, not to mention we should expand market share through the downturn.

And then when things get better and they will get better through the cycle, when we come out the other side, we'll have increased that market share and then we should be to get a benefit for the pricing power that we'll get and the margins coming back out the other side. So it is important for us to continue to work it like an assembly line.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Gilbert with BTIG.

Ryan Gilbert: Just -- yes, first question, just given the comments around staying disciplined in the face of some pretty heavy discounting in 4Q, I'm wondering how your spec count looked throughout the quarter, how you exited the quarter in terms of specs? And then I guess, what specs look like -- how specs -- what the spec count looks like heading into 1Q '26 and how you're thinking about it this spring?

Russ Devendorf: Yes. So ideally, we'd love to have everything under construction presold, right? That's what we want to get back to. And the reason for it is having a presale orientation really gets you a higher value on those homes from your buyers, right? Because when those buyers select to go via presale, they're putting in options that they want. We're not having to discount as much. And so we're trying to push more presales. That said, given the environment, specs are probably running about half of our current inventory. But that's okay. The biggest thing is even though we count it as a spec, we're putting those under contract.

We're not getting a ton that are going past completion or certainly past 30 days completion, and we're really pushing to get those sold before what we call line in the sand or when we -- pretty much drywall stage. So -- but again, that goes back to the fact that we really run it more like an assembly line, like production is our -- production is the most important where we keep that running. And so we're trying to match sales pace with that production and just keep it moving.

So we've got the -- as we look forward to 2026, so even though our backlog and presales are down, not where we want them, our inventory is right where we need them to be. And so production, even though we'd like a higher percentage of presale, we've got to keep that machine going to hit some of the growth targets that we expect in 2026. So a little elevated, but we continue to chop away at that presale versus spec balance.

Ryan Gilbert: Okay. Got it. Then just secondly, would love to get an update on your strategy around land in terms of preference for finished lot purchase agreements versus land banking and how pricing looks in both of those categories?

Greg Bennett: Yes. So thanks for the question. We are almost always first looking to do lot, finished lot takedown. Those opportunities are still out there. Secondly, we'll go to our land bank partners and structure the deals in an array of different manners. But I would think if we look to land and to add a little color to some of Russ's earlier comments, we're seeing softening and opportunities in some of the A, B locations that historically for affordability, maybe we didn't get opportunities there or they just didn't solve for our price points. And then the C, D type locations are -- they're getting shopped around a lot because there's not a lot of demand in those locations.

So we're focused on better locations, focused on terms and then where we need to engage our land bank partners.

Operator: That concludes our question-and-answer session. I will now turn the call over to Greg Bennett, CEO, for closing remarks.

Greg Bennett: Thanks, everyone, for joining our call today as we discuss our Q4 results. Hope everyone has a great day.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

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