Old Republic (ORI) Q3 2025 Earnings Transcript

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DATE

Thursday, October 23, 2025 at 3 p.m. ET

CALL PARTICIPANTS

President and Chief Executive Officer — Craig Richard Smiddy

Chief Financial Officer — Francis Joseph Sodaro

President and Chief Executive Officer, National Title Insurance Group — Carolyn Jean Monroe

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TAKEAWAYS

Consolidated Pretax Operating Income -- $248.2 million in the third quarter, up from $229.2 million a year ago.

Net Operating Income -- $197 million for the quarter, compared to $183 million a year ago; $0.78 per share for the quarter, compared to $0.71 a year ago. Net operating income per share increased 10% for the quarter compared to a year ago.

Combined Ratio -- Consolidated combined ratio was 95.3%, compared to 95% a year ago.

Annualized Operating Return on Beginning Equity -- Annualized operating return on beginning equity was 14.4%, up from 11.9% a year ago.

Specialty Insurance Net Premiums Earned -- Net premiums earned for Specialty Insurance grew 8.1% compared to a year ago, and Specialty Insurance pretax operating income was $207.7 million, up from $197.3 million a year ago.

Specialty Insurance Combined Ratio -- Specialty Insurance combined ratio was 94.8%, compared to 94% a year ago.

Title Insurance Premium and Fee Revenue -- $767 million in title premium and fee revenue for Q3 2025; up 8% compared to Q3 2024.

Title Insurance Pretax Operating Income -- Title Insurance pretax operating income was $45.7 million, up from $40.2 million a year ago.

Title Insurance Combined Ratio -- Title Insurance combined ratio was 96.4%, compared to 96.7% a year ago.

Net Investment Income -- Net investment income increased 6.7%, primarily due to higher bond yields. Book yield on the bond portfolio was 4.7%, up from 4.5% at the end of last year.

Favorable Prior Year Loss Reserve Development -- Consolidated benefit in the loss ratio of 2.5 percentage points, up from 1.3 points a year ago.

Specialty Insurance Net Written Premiums -- Specialty Insurance net written premiums were up 6.9% compared to a year ago.

Commercial Auto Net Premiums Written -- Commercial auto net premiums written grew 7% compared to a year ago. Commercial auto loss ratio was 68.3%, compared to 67.1% a year ago.

Workers' Compensation Net Premiums Written -- Net investment income increased 6.7%. Workers' compensation loss ratio was 63.8%, compared to 58.8% a year ago.

Book Value Per Share -- $26.19, reflecting an 18.5% increase year-to-date with dividends included through Q3 2025.

Regular Cash Dividends Paid -- $71 million in regular cash dividends paid during Q3 2025; share repurchases totaled $44 million during Q3 2025, with $910 million authorization remaining.

Everett Cash Mutual (ECM) Acquisition Agreement -- Sponsored demutualization for an insurer with $237 million in direct premium written in 2024; will become the eighteenth specialty operating company.

Title Insurance Commercial Premiums -- Accounted for 26% of earned premiums in Q3 2025, up from 20% in Q3 2024.

Title Investment Income -- Title Insurance investment income was up nearly 11% compared to a year ago, primarily due to higher yields.

Expense Ratio Specialty Insurance -- Expense ratio for Specialty Insurance was 31.3%, up from 28.8% a year ago, primarily due to personnel and technology investment.

SUMMARY

Old Republic International (NYSE:ORI) reported higher consolidated pretax operating income and an improved annualized operating return on beginning equity in Q3 2025. Specialty Insurance delivered growth in net premiums, with increased contribution from new specialty operating companies and commercial lines. The company’s agreement to acquire Everett Cash Mutual (ECM) through sponsored demutualization will further expand specialty insurance operations and product diversity. Management stated that the ECM transaction will not constrain ongoing capital return initiatives, highlighting over $910 million remaining for share repurchases as of the end of Q3 2025. The Title Insurance segment grew revenue and commercial market share, despite continued weakness in residential purchases.

Smiddy confirmed, "the recently launched operating companies and the ECM acquisition do not materially hinder our ability to return capital."

Sodaro said, "Our average reinvestment rate on corporate bonds acquired during the quarter was 4.7%, compared to the average yield rolling off of about 4.1%."

The combined ratio for Title Insurance improved both sequentially and year-over-year, supported by lower loss ratios and increased agency-produced premiums.

Management expects the ECM deal will be accretive to book value per share, due to the sponsored demutualization structure.

Sodaro reported continued conservative reserving, with favorable prior year loss reserve development across major lines.

Monroe noted, "Agency-produced premiums were up 11% and made up nearly 80% of revenue, up from 78% in 2024."

No new regulatory pressures were reported in Title Insurance outside the ongoing Texas rate matter.

INDUSTRY GLOSSARY

Sponsored Demutualization: A transaction where a mutual insurance company converts to a stock company with an external sponsor providing capital and assuming control.

Combined Ratio: An insurance profitability metric, calculated as the sum of incurred losses and expenses divided by earned premiums, with ratios below 100% indicating underwriting profit.

Pretax Operating Income: Profit from operations before tax, excluding investment gains and losses or extraordinary items.

Favorable Prior Year Loss Reserve Development: A reduction in loss reserves for previous policy years, reflecting better-than-expected claim outcomes.

Full Conference Call Transcript

Craig Smiddy, President and CEO; Francis Joseph Sodaro, Chief Financial Officer; and Carolyn Jean Monroe, President and CEO of Old Republic International Corporation's National Title Insurance Group. Management will make some opening remarks, then we'll open the line for your questions. At this time, I'd like to turn the call over to Craig Smiddy. Please go ahead, sir.

Craig Richard Smiddy: Okay. Thank you, Joe. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome again to Old Republic International Corporation's third quarter 2025 earnings call. In addition to our earnings release, we also issued a separate news release this morning regarding our agreement to purchase Everett Cash Mutual through a sponsored demutualization. We think this is reflective of our commitment to continue to pursue profitable growth of our Specialty Insurance business. ECM, as it's referred, is a leading insurer of farm and agricultural operations nationwide, writing $237 million of direct premium in 2024. We also added a new slide on ECM to the appendix of our investor presentation on our website. So there's more there for you to see if you're so interested.

Strategically, ECM fits very nicely into our specialty insurance portfolio, given our close cultural alignment and their narrow and deep focus on farm and ag specialty. ECM provides for further product diversification within our existing specialty insurance business, and we will not compete with any of ECM's current offerings or vice versa. So, once the transaction closes, we expect ECM to be very well positioned from a capital and product perspective to pursue profitable growth geographically and through new product offerings. So we're very happy to have the ECM folks join the Old Republic International Corporation family. So, now turning to the earnings release, our story of solid growth and profitability continued through the third quarter.

We produced $248.2 million of consolidated pretax operating income, up from $229.2 million in 2024. Our consolidated combined ratio was 95.3%, compared to 95% in the third quarter of last year.

Francis Joseph Sodaro: On our balance sheet, it remains strong.

Craig Richard Smiddy: While we continue to invest in new specialty operating companies, make ongoing technology investments, and also invest in talent across the organization. Our annualized operating return on beginning equity improved to an annualized rate of 14.4%, compared to 11.9% in the third quarter last year, which we think reflects our strong operating earnings and thoughtful management of capital. In Specialty Insurance, we grew net premiums earned by 8.1% compared to 2024, when we produced $207 million of pretax operating income, up from $197.3 million in the third quarter last year. The Specialty Insurance combined ratio was at 94.8% in the quarter, compared to 94% in the third quarter last year.

Despite the continuation of a slow real estate market, title insurance grew premium and fees by 8.3% compared to the third quarter last year, and produced $45.7 million of pretax operating income, up from $40.2 million in the third quarter last year. The title insurance combined ratio was 96.4% in the quarter, compared to 96.7% in the third quarter last year. Our conservative reserving practices continue to produce favorable prior year loss reserve development in both specialty insurance and title insurance, and Frank will provide more details around that topic.

So with that, I'll turn the discussion over to Frank, and then Frank will turn things back to me to discuss specialty insurance, followed by Carolyn, who will discuss title insurance, and then as the operator says, we'll open it up for Q&A. So Frank.

Francis Joseph Sodaro: Thank you, Craig, and good afternoon, everyone. This morning, we reported net operating income of $197 million for the quarter, compared to $183 million last year. On a per share basis, comparable quarter-over-quarter results were $0.78 compared to $0.71, a 10% increase.

Craig Richard Smiddy: Net investment income increased 6.7%, primarily as a result of higher yields on the bond portfolio.

Francis Joseph Sodaro: Our average reinvestment rate on corporate bonds acquired during the quarter was 4.7%, compared to the average yield rolling off of about 4.1%. The total bond portfolio book yield stands at 4.7%, compared to 4.5% at the end of last year. Turning now to loss reserves, both specialty insurance and title insurance recognized favorable development in the quarter, leading to a benefit in the consolidated loss ratio of 2.5 percentage points, compared to 1.3 points of favorable development last year.

Craig Richard Smiddy: Within Specialty Insurance,

Francis Joseph Sodaro: workers' comp continued to have significant favorable development and accounted for the majority of the group's total favorable development. Commercial auto, general liability, and property all had favorable development in the quarter. As we have mentioned in the past, general liability is a relatively small but growing line that does have some quarter-to-quarter volatility. This quarter, GL had favorable development, and the year-to-date impact was negligible on the specialty insurance loss ratio. We ended the quarter with book value per share of $26.19, which inclusive of the regular dividend equated to an increase of 18.5% year-to-date.

Craig Richard Smiddy: That resulted primarily from our strong operating earnings and higher investment valuations. In the quarter, we paid $71 million in regular cash dividends and repurchased $44 million worth of our shares. We did not repurchase additional shares since the end of the quarter, leaving us with just over $910 million remaining on our current repurchase program. We, the recently launched operating companies and the ECM acquisition do not materially hinder our ability to return capital. So as usual, we will be discussing with our Board of Directors the most efficient way to return capital by the end of the year. I'll now turn the call back over to Craig for a discussion of Specialty Insurance.

Craig Richard Smiddy: Okay, Frank. Thanks for that summary. Specialty insurance net written premiums were up 6.9% in the third quarter, with strong rate increases on commercial auto and general liability that I'll talk about momentarily. We had solid renewal retentions, strong new business writings, and an increasing amount of premium in our new specialty operating companies. As mentioned in my opening remarks, in the third quarter, Specialty Insurance pretax operating income was $207.7 million, and the combined ratio was 94.8%. The loss ratio for the third quarter was 63.5%, which included 3.4 percentage points of favorable prior year loss reserve development, compared to 65.2% in the third quarter last year, which included 1.7 points of favorable development.

The expense ratio was 31.3% in the third quarter, compared to 28.8% last year, primarily reflecting higher personnel expenses, including those within our newest specialty operating companies not yet producing premium, and ongoing investments in technology. For note, the year-to-date expense ratio and loss ratio tend to be better indications of run rates, and they also reflect changes in our mix of business toward lower loss ratios and higher commission ratios. Now to give you some details around our two largest lines of business, commercial auto and workers' compensation. Commercial auto net premiums written grew 7% in the third quarter, while the loss ratio came in at 68.3%, compared to 67.1% last year.

Rate increases remained at the 14% level, which is the same we saw in the second quarter, and that's commensurate with the loss severity trend we're observing. Switching to workers' compensation, net premiums written grew 6.7% in the third quarter, while the loss ratio came in at 63.8%, compared to 58.8% last year. Rates continued to remain relatively flat, and here too, that's consistent with what we observed in the second quarter. Loss frequency trend continues to decline, more than offsetting the increase in loss severity trend.

So given the positive wage trend within port payroll, and again, that's what we apply our rates to, a declining loss frequency trend and a relatively stable loss severity trend, we think our rate levels continue to remain adequate. So we expect solid growth and profitability in Insurance to continue, reflecting the success of our specialty strategy and our growing contributions from our new specialty operating companies. Our operational excellence initiatives continue to contribute to this profitable growth by leveraging Old Republic International Corporation's collective knowledge and expertise, and we also here too included a new slide on these initiatives in the appendix of our investor presentation on our website.

So, that concludes my remarks on specialty insurance, and I'll now turn the discussion over to you, Carolyn, to report on Title Insurance.

Carolyn Jean Monroe: Thank you, Craig, and good afternoon, everyone. Title reported premium and fee revenue for the quarter of $767 million. This represents an increase of 8% from the third quarter of last year. The third quarter market story is a continuation of what we reported last quarter. We still see strong activity in the commercial sector, a modest uptick in refinance activity, and a softness in the residential purchase market driven by persistent price and affordability challenges. Overall, we are pleased with our revenue improvement during the year. Premiums from our direct title operations were up 8% from the third quarter of last year.

Agency-produced premiums were up 11% and made up nearly 80% of our revenue during the quarter, up from 78% during 2024. Commercial premiums increased this quarter and were 26% of our earned premiums, compared to 20% in the third quarter of last year. Investment income was also up this quarter by nearly 11% compared to the third quarter of 2024, primarily reflecting higher investment yields earned. Our overall loss ratio decreased to 2.7% this quarter, compared to 2.8% in 2024. The slight improvement relates to continued favorable development in prior years. Agency premiums accounted for a larger share of our revenue this quarter, raising agent commissions and increasing our expense ratio by 1.9%.

Francis Joseph Sodaro: The remainder of our expenses decreased by 2.1% relative to premiums and fees.

Carolyn Jean Monroe: These changes led to a combined ratio of 96.4% for this quarter, an improvement over both last quarter and the 96.7% reported in 2024. Pretax operating income this quarter was $46 million, compared to $40 million in the third quarter of last year. During the quarter, we continued progressing with the advancement of digital transactions tools and solutions for our direct operations and title agents through our strategic partnership. We remain focused on the importance of providing our agents with the innovative technological solutions required to maintain a competitive edge. And thank you. And with that, I will turn it back to Craig.

Craig Richard Smiddy: Okay. Thank you, Carolyn. Well, that concludes our prepared remarks. So we'll now open up the discussion to Q&A. I'll try to answer your questions, or I'll ask Frank or Carolyn for some help.

Tina: As a reminder, to ask a question, simply press. And our first question comes from the line of Gregory Peters with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Gregory Peters: Hey, good afternoon, everyone.

Francis Joseph Sodaro: For my first question,

Gregory Peters: I want to go back to Frank's comments on capital. And I guess what I'm looking for is just how you are measuring excess. Is it reserves based on reserves or what the ratios you're looking at? And how you're thinking about excess capital in the context of what Frank was saying in the fourth quarter?

Craig Richard Smiddy: Yeah. Greg, I'll let Frank add anything if he has anything to add. Last year, we had the $2 special dividend. We made note that we had this nice problem of continuing to have operating income retained earnings that were building faster than we could return capital to shareholders, either through share repurchases or dividends. And so we issued a special dividend. When we contemplate that and discuss that with our Board, we look at several different enterprise risk management measures. And one of those is certainly the amount of capital we hold relative to the reserves.

But there's been no major shift at all, really just a matter of again, having a nice problem where we continue to just build capital faster than we could deploy it. So as we sit here this year, the same kind of thing has happened. We have built up capital again, and we have done so faster than we're able to return it through share repurchases or ordinary dividends. So, as Frank indicated, it's a matter that, as we always do, we'll take up with our Board and suggest the best ways to return that to shareholders in a way that is most productive for the shareholders. So, that's again no shift.

We continue to look at multiple different metrics when we look at capital. And we manage it thoughtfully, as I indicated in my comments.

Gregory Peters: And do a significant amount of analysis and make recommendations accordingly to our board.

Craig Richard Smiddy: Great. And I was looking over your slide on Everett. And, just curious if you could tell us a little bit more about this entity. You highlighted that there's not a lot of crossover in terms of product. So I'm just curious how you're thinking about this business and how it's going to sit inside Old Republic International Corporation. And, more importantly, I know you've got these start-up operating companies, the five you've outlined. Does this become number six as you branch off into some other types of businesses? So just some more color there would be.

Craig Richard Smiddy: Sure. Sure. So start with the latter part of your question, and that is we definitely look at it as a new operating company within our existing portfolio of operating companies. I think that would take us up to 18 companies within our specialty insurance, and then, of course, our title insurance being our nineteenth. So one of the things that was very attractive to ECM was that decentralized model and the degree of independence and accountability that we give to each of those operating companies. And as I mentioned as well, just a strong cultural alignment of integrity and transparency and the other components of our cultural tenets that we share.

So, as far as the business itself, we, again, are thinking that it is very complementary and doesn't compete with our existing segments. It's a specialty segment in the marketplace. And that is the sole focus of Everett, which is exactly what our strategy is, and that is for each of those 18 different operating companies to be an inch wide, mile deep in their specialty, focused very narrowly on what they do and do it better than anybody else. And ECM checks every one of those boxes. So I guess, getting into more of the technicals, as I mentioned, ECM focuses on farm and ag business.

And in that portfolio, farm owners and 70% of their coverages, with inland marine and commercial auto each making up about 9% of their coverages. And another important attractive note is that their business skews more toward short-tail lines of coverage, which a lot of the new companies that we've added lately to diversify our portfolio have been, which is a short-tail kind of line. So you have a much faster understanding of how the business is performing. And, again, we intend to give ECM the capital necessary to continue to drive expansion of their business. We expect that they'll do that through geographic expansion.

They started some geographic expansion by making an acquisition in late 2022 when they made an acquisition that allowed them to expand westward.

Gregory Peters: And I think another attribute that is shared is they compete on the basis of expertise, relationships, ease of doing business, around their specialty niche just like all of our specialties. So, again, their profile is very consistent with the profile of our existing specialty companies, and as such, we just think it's a perfect fit. Excellent.

Craig Richard Smiddy: Thanks for the color. And I just pivot to the title business. It's my final question. Hope springs eternal that things market will turn on the residential side. In the interim, I know you addressed this last conference call, there's in text there's some challenges on some rate rollbacks. I'm wondering if you're seeing any other regulatory pressures build up in any other states, or is it just normal operating status everywhere else?

Francis Joseph Sodaro: Yeah. I think it's been fairly consistent. Nothing significant has emerged. But, Carolyn, you're much closer to the action than I am. So I'll turn it to you to maybe add any color you might have.

Carolyn Jean Monroe: Hi, Greg. No. It's been, you know, fairly quiet on the regulatory front. Nothing out of the ordinary. Still waiting on the Texas, you know, it was appealed. There's supposed to be a hearing in December, but really no word on that yet. But that's the only thing that's out there brewing right now.

Gregory Peters: Got it. Alright. Thanks for your answers. Thank you, Greg.

Tina: As a reminder, to ask a question, press 1. And our next question comes from the line of Paul Newsome with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Paul Newsome: Good afternoon. Hi, Seth.

Carolyn Jean Monroe: I want to be on the ECM dead horse a little bit more.

Paul Newsome: And I don't know if you will actually get more precise numbers, but, you know, I'd like to know how this fits in with a little bit better with how it fits into the capital decisions that you're going to be making in the near future. I mean, I would imagine ECM is going to cost at least statutory capital for you folks. And then it sounds like, again, correct me if I'm wrong with these assumptions, that there's an intention to put more capital in the ECM? And then I guess on top of that, have whatever is left in your view of excess capital.

And so I guess, the questions are, are those the right pieces I should be looking at? And then can we talk about sort of like potential timing of those things? It sounds like ECM is going to close sometime in 2026. I don't know if that means you're holding around the capital a little bit longer this time around. And some of the more speedy things you've done in the past at year-end?

Craig Richard Smiddy: Sure, Paul. It's about five questions in there. I apologize. Yeah. I think we followed, though. Well, as we had indicated, in the release,

Paul Newsome: we

Craig Richard Smiddy: expect this to be accretive to book value per share. So you can infer from there that it is not will not be at least the amount of their statutory capital. And that is because of the structure of sponsored demutualization. So

Gregory Peters: from a high-level standpoint,

Craig Richard Smiddy: the sponsored demutualization is not going to affect our view of capital as we get to that analysis with our board and look at things how things look at the end of the year. There's really no consideration in that analysis of capital needs in order to follow through on the sponsored demutualization. Through that sponsored demutualization, ECM will end up with additional capital, and that is what will enable them to pursue the growth opportunities. As you know, mutuals have a limited amount of ability to raise capital. And you know, under our umbrella here at Old Republic International Corporation, we will have that capital if they need it.

But just through the sponsored demutualization, they will end up with more capital to pursue those goals. And again, on top of that, we don't plan on contributing additional capital beyond that. So long story short, it really doesn't move the needle at all when it comes to how we're looking at our capital position and the recommendations we'll be making with regard to returning capital to shareholders going forward. Okay. That's great.

Paul Newsome: Now follow-up question. On a different horse. Beat up horse. Yesterday night, last night, we had some not so happy news at a selective about commercial auto insurance. Really an additional problem for them. And, I know if you can or would like me to respond to that directly, but obviously, you are a big commercial auto writer. It's a different business. Recognize that, but maybe give me some thoughts on what you think is going on in the commercial auto business and why you may or may not be ahead of the game there?

Craig Richard Smiddy: Sure. I'd be happy to talk about that again. We're quite proud of where we stand relative to the industry. As I think I've mentioned in prior quarters, we continue to put out favorable loss reserve development on commercial auto, while many of our peers over the course of the last few years have been putting up unfavorable development. And you know, there's a lot of components that account for why we're in such a strong position. Again, I would point to just first and foremost, the starting point of identifying the severity trend and then getting the commensurate rate that you need.

And now we're going back six or seven years where we identified it a lot earlier than a lot of our peers. And responded with rate increases to offset those trends we were seeing. I mentioned in my opening,

Francis Joseph Sodaro: comments,

Gregory Peters: we

Craig Richard Smiddy: it's still a problem for the industry in that I think the trend is running somewhere in the low teens. And we're getting rate increases on commercial auto of 14%. So that's been our MO. For the last six or seven years, we've spotted the trend. We get rate increases commensurate with that trend. Once you have a good starting point. And I think a lot of our peers didn't have a good starting point because they didn't recognize it as quickly. Maybe weren't getting the rate increases early enough and or not getting as strong as rate increases as necessary to keep up with that trend.

And then there's other things just about the way we think about things and do business that are important. One of the things Great

Gregory Peters: West is our trucking business.

Craig Richard Smiddy: And they do one thing and one thing only. Long haul trucking. They have a team

Francis Joseph Sodaro: of statisticians analysts,

Craig Richard Smiddy: that are relying on data and analytics to adjust their rates in real-time fashion. They don't rely on ISO. A lot of our competitors rely on ISO. And if you're going to write commercial auto, long haul trucking, you're relying on ISO. You're already probably behind the game. So we're real-time. We have our own team. We have our own proprietary rate filings in every state. Those rate filings we have, we have 42 tiers built within our proprietary rate filings. So that we can segment our business and analyze it and apply the appropriate rate, the appropriate risk, and do that again in a fashion that is very responsive to what we're seeing on trend.

On the claims side, again, inch wide, mile deep, we are all we do is long haul trucking claims. We have, you know, our folks are, we have a catastrophic team, five airplanes that immediately get out of catastrophic events. Immediately try to get our arms around the catastrophic losses that can certainly cause significant severity in the results. Our team in claims, they have relationships with all the EPA folks within all the states. So if you have a bill, on a cargo spill or something like that, we know immediately how to handle it. Immediately who to talk to, mitigate the amount of damage from those kinds of instances.

And I could go on about just, again, how specialized we are in that space. And then lastly, I would just say it's about reserving. Starts with case reserving. Great West is terrific at getting case reserves set to ultimate as quickly as possible. A matter of fact, when they get those case reserves set, unlike many in the industry, our case reserves actually run off a little bit redundant. Which is unheard of. So the only IBNR we really need is for true IBNR. Where we actually don't know of an incident yet. But when we know of an incident, our case reserves are set to ultimate and set there very quickly.

We don't stair step as it's so called in the industry like

Francis Joseph Sodaro: many

Craig Richard Smiddy: like many do. And then when it comes to our IBNR reserving, we've talked about that. We've had on all of our lines. But we have a very conservative approach on our IBNR reserves whereby we set a loss pick at the beginning of the year. Auto liability we're holding that loss pick at what we set it at even if we see results come in that look better than expected. If we see results that come in, then we think it's a little bit hotter than we expected, we will raise that initial loss pick but we will not lower that initial loss pick until we get at least three, four years out on commercial auto.

Five years out on workers' compensation. So those long tail lines we are very conservative in how we manage IBNR. In addition to on all of our lines of business, our new chief claims officer, new being he's been here a couple of years, came in at exactly the right time. To help us

Francis Joseph Sodaro: address

Craig Richard Smiddy: the legal system abuse issue, the severity issue, plaintiff attorney tactics, he's helped in that regard. But one of his main charges is to ensure all of our companies are getting case reserves set to ultimate as quickly as possible on every one of our lines of business so that we can know what we have and ultimately respond and achieve our goal of having a couple points of favorable development on average over time on every line of business.

Paul Newsome: Great. Appreciate the help as always.

Tina: With no further questions in queue, I will now turn the call back over to management for closing remarks.

Craig Richard Smiddy: Okay. Well, we appreciate the interest. We appreciate the questions. And again, we look forward to welcoming the ECM stakeholders to the Old Republic International Corporation family. And we also are looking forward to producing the strong profitable growth for our shareholders and all other stakeholders as well. And we look forward to reporting our year-end results next time we talk to you. So thank you very much.

Tina: Thank you again for joining us today. This does conclude today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

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